Curse

Chicken Ftw · May 15, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor K

When a consumer isn't complaining, logic would denote they aren't upset with the changes. The amount of people who AREN'T bitching far outweighs the amount of people who are.

You know, I hear this used frequently, and it's just not true. There are dozens of reasons people aren't complaining here. Maybe they don't even know the site exists, maybe they silently walked away from GW after yet another update they didn't like. Stop throwing out this rehashed bs that the only reason people aren't complaining is that they like the changes.

Martin Kerstein · May 15, 2009, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX

and this means what? you didn't have time to do a real update so decided to release one that failed miserably? and despite the smallness of the update you didn't have time to write notes about it?

Let me tell you a little bit about "process":
Skill changes are discussed.
Skill changes need to be approved.
Changes need to be written up, reviewed, then send off to localization.
Person who writes the reasoning for changes can't do it because he is completely busy with working for the aforementioned internal product review.
Review is ended – Person now has time to write down the Dev Update.
Dev Update needs to be reviewed and then sent off to localization.
Localization people actually have a weekend too….
I hope this sheds a little bit more light on why the Dev Update is delayed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX

It isn't hard to figure out what is broken in PvE or what is broken in PvP all you actually need to do is listen to your playerbase for once

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Given the masive thumbs down by teh community to this pathetic (lack of) update, I wonder if anyone from ANet community relations will bother engaging with us over thier conmplete failure to deliver on this one?

You might want to be careful with conclusions like this. I just finished checking the German boards for example, and the feedback there is quite different from the one here. Also, there is not "THE Community". 100 players have hundred different opinions on how they want to see changes in the game. Also, approx. 90% of the playerbase of any MMO usually never even post or read boards. And yes, we do actually read your feedback threads and share your opinions with the Devs.
I understand that some of you do not like specific changes or want changes to additional skills. I also encourage each and every one to first try the changes to see how it effects your personal gameplay.

Professor K · May 15, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by manager

There you go trying to use magical terms like logic.

No common sense allowed on here!

Apollo Smile · May 15, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

You know, I hear this used frequently, and it's just not true. There are dozens of reasons people aren't complaining here. Maybe they don't even know the site exists, maybe they silently walked away from GW after yet another update they didn't like. Stop throwing out this rehashed bs that the only reason people aren't complaining is that they like the changes.

Or maybe they are... Playing the game and enjoying themselves. I hate to break it to ya' chief, but not everyone is a bitter forum mongler eagerly waiting for something to go wrong so they can pick at it like diseased vultures.

Anon-e-mouse · May 15, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by .defekt

why do you care?
you've still got RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing 100000 overpowered skills that make PvE unbelievably easy, why complain about a couple skills that you probably didnt use in the first place?

Because yet again, another PvP'r makes the common PvE mistake. THE FOES IN PVE USE THE SAME SKILLS, if you nerf them for PvE, you make those foes even easier to kill... yet again, especially when those skills were not even a problem in PvE in the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing first place.

manager · May 15, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Hey now, even diseased vultures have feelings! (EDIT-> @Apollo)

loveonmymind2 · May 15, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

worst update ever seen.
im so sad that making this changes took 2 months i can only say all the anet stuff are a bunch of lazy tards with no idea about pvp.
lol i wont discuss about the nerfing of each skill i disagree like pnh but cuz i would be here writing and flaming anets failure all the night so i better ask: why in all updates 25 nerfs while only 1 buff? why are there 250+`skills in this game that serves no purpose and cannot be used cuz they actually do nothing but crap?

Megas XLR · May 15, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Every freakin' skill update since freakin' December 2008 has been a nerf bat that opened up NOTHING new to the game. 5 months of total bullshit fed to us without a spec of creativity. I recommend that the team begins looking at underused skills that could bring in fresh life to the game. Skill balances are the be all end all refreshment to bring people back and start playing again. But lately, all we've seen are a few nerfs here, a few nerfs here, and a rare underbuff here.

Karate Jesus · May 15, 2009, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

Let me tell you a little bit about "process":
Skill changes are discussed.
Skill changes need to be approved.
Changes need to be written up, reviewed, then send off to localization.
Person who writes the reasoning for changes can't do it because he is completely busy with working for the aforementioned internal product review.
Review is ended – Person now has time to write down the Dev Update.
Dev Update needs to be reviewed and then sent off to localization.
Localization people actually have a weekend too….
I hope this sheds a little bit more light on why the Dev Update is delayed.

We have a similar process for write-ups at my place of business (can't tell you what it is, but let's say it involves....publishing/editing).

The whole process takes maybe.....half an afternoon. Maybe a full 6 hours, if our bosses/review board are feeling lazy. Oh, and we take full weekends off too. Of course our work doesn't involve near as much coding, but printing and systems work.

So....I'm sure you can understand my reasoning behind what I'm about to say.

Wtf? Seriously? 2 months to work on this, the info gets leaked (and the Well idea was decent if it had stayed in PvE), the skill update is poorly done at best (no reworking of skills? just GvG/HA balancing? really?), and then you try to excuse away the fact that your dev update isn't done. Well, I think it's bullshit. At my job, my bosses wouldn't put up with that kind of shit.

Oh, and the leaks are getting bad now. Almost every month. You guys need to clamp down or there's going to be a lawsuit.

XxSanctusxX · May 15, 2009, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Simple question:
What are the things that are wrong with this update, just a small/big (whatever you like) list plz, no flame/QQ.
Simple question=simple answer.. Lets see.

Karate Jesus · May 15, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxSanctusxX

Simple question:
What are the things that are wrong with this update, just a small/big (whatever you like) list plz, no flame/QQ.
Simple question=simple answer.. Lets see.

Many of us were expecting this skill update to contain some skill reworking, improvement of bad elites, fixing broken skills, etc.

And basically they just killed all the incredibly overpowered balancedway stuff in GvG/HA. With the exception of making SoH viable for PvE and randomly improving 2 illusion magic skills (but not enough to make them useful).

It wasn't a bad update. I just think that many of us expected something that reflected effort and time. Reactionary updates are typically a disappointment (as far as I can tell on the fan sites, etc.)

JASON626 · May 15, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

I think its somewhat ok update. It was scaling things down to normal level with out making some pure useless. Still more skills need looked at that have been mentioned.

Aegis is the one that has me puzzled. Glyph of renewal aegis, 40% recharge weapon set idk how it will be used tbh.

PwK i thought was fine b4. Its been nerfed twice now right.

illusionary weaponry might be a pain in smaller arenas like ra. it can't be blocked if i remember right. kinda like hundred blades.

Rocky Raccoon · May 15, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Einherj3r

Proof?

Listen to the people that actually are complaining and see if those changes cause an uproar amongst those that previously weren't complaining.
If they care you get the opportunity to please both parties, if they don't then well, they just don't care as much ;|

The uproar is always from the same group of people, if you follow Guru at all you know the names. I also find it ironic that those who claim they don't play anymore always find time to complain about something that shouldn't have any affect on them.

Martin Kerstein · May 15, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

We have a similar process for write-ups at my place of business (can't tell you what it is, but let's say it involves....publishing/editing).

The whole process takes maybe.....half an afternoon. Maybe a full 6 hours, if our bosses/review board are feeling lazy. Oh, and we take full weekends off too. Of course our work doesn't involve near as much coding, but printing and systems work.

I am impressed by this - I work in this job for more than 3 years now, and have always worked very close especially with the localisation during my time at NCsoft Europe, and the normal turn around time for any localisation is 24 hours - so your 6 hours are really impressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Wtf? Seriously? 2 months to work on this, the info gets leaked (and the Well idea was decent if it had stayed in PvE), the skill update is poorly done at best (no reworking of skills? just GvG/HA balancing? really?), and then you try to excuse away the fact that your dev update isn't done. Well, I think it's bullshit. At my job, my bosses wouldn't put up with that kind of shit.

This is a general misconception. We did not work for 2 months on this update. As we stated before our big April update was released - there was no time for skill updates as everybody was focused on releasing the content update.

And I am not actually "excusing" for anything here - I just tell you the reasoning why the Dev Update will be released after the update this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Oh, and the leaks are getting bad now.

I agree.

Karate Jesus · May 15, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

I agree.

Well, at least we agree on one thing lol.

In my profession, 6 hours isn't great for a turnaround like that. But like I said earlier, we deal with a lot less coding and red-tape than I'm sure you do. And our review board has been known to make mistakes (but I guess that could be said of yours too, huh?).

But again, it's basically all we do and we probably have a lot more staff than you guys do. Last I heard, you guys only have like 6-8 people doing the job. We have at least a dozen at all times.

I'm still disappointed in this update. I just have a hard time understanding who thought these skill updates were even a good idea. Lackluster, I think would be an appropriate word.

EDIT: Oh, and by 2 months, I meant that you had two months that you COULD have worked on the skills. I think we all knew that you guys weren't working on this for 2 months, but the time was there.

Einherj3r · May 15, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

I just finished checking the German boards for example, and the feedback there is quite different from the one here.

My impression was that the germans had similar issues with the update as the people on gwguru (I checked gw-tactics and wartower).

From what you were saying I think we can agree that both the devs and the players are not satisfied with the number of skill changes yet.
So I think it'd be great to know whether you're going to update on schedule next time and what kind of changes we can expect?
As you certainly know there has been high demand for a change on some classes/attributes (Paragons/Ritualists/Beast Mastery/Blood Magic).
Are you going to address these issues?

Lyphen · May 15, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

I understand that some of you do not like specific changes or want changes to additional skills. I also encourage each and every one to first try the changes to see how it effects your personal gameplay.

I'd love to try the Ritualist changes!

Oh wait...

Chicken Ftw · May 15, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Or maybe they are... Playing the game and enjoying themselves. I hate to break it to ya' chief, but not everyone is a bitter forum mongler eagerly waiting for something to go wrong so they can pick at it like diseased vultures.

You must mean the portion of the PvE crowd who doesn't care what Anet does to GW as long as they leave their RoJ/VSF/whatever's flavor of the month farming alone. Of course they're not complaining. :P

Karate Jesus · May 15, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Einherj3r

As you certainly know there has been high demand for a change on some classes/attributes (Paragons/Ritualists/Beast Mastery/Blood Magic)

Blood magic was actually supposed to be addressed (according to the leak), but it was a poor idea because of how it would have affected GvG & HA. I imagine they'll get to blood magic next update (hopefully with the wells idea intact for PvE), they just need to figure out a way to make it viable w/o destroying it or making it overpowered.

Sarevok Thordin · May 15, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

You must mean the portion of the PvE crowd who doesn't care what Anet does to GW as long as they leave their RoJ/VSF/whatever's flavor of the month farming alone. Of course they're not complaining. :P

Lol, true tho.

PvErs are heavily split here, the people WITH the God Mode button who don't want to lose it, and those without who want it gone.